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Joe Blevins 
"Don't I look handsome?"

Posted - 07/16/2009 :  03:15:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A beloved cult favorite tonight, so forgive a slightly longer-than-usual write-up:

48. A Bucket of Blood

This was one of the few Chilling Classics I'd seen beforehand, though I did rewatch it for this project about an hour or so ago. My previous interest in it was entirely due to its close relationship to 1960's The Little Shop of Horrors, a movie I've probably seen two dozen times and which I already mentioned in my Lady Frankenstein write-up. Little Shop is kind of like Bucket of Blood's goofy little brother. It came out a year later and has the same director (Roger Corman), the same screenwriter (Charles B. Griffith), the same exact score (by Fred Katz), some shared cast members (Dick Miller, Myrtle Vail) and essentially the same plot outline almost character-for-character and scene-for-scene. The reason, in fact, that Miller turned down the lead in Little Shop was that he felt he would just be recycling his role from Bucket, and he's pretty much right. (Besides, Miller landed a plum supporting role in Little Shop and gets some of that film's funniest lines.)

Don't get the feeling, though, that these are identical viewing experiences. Little Shop is wildly satirical and madcap; critic Danny Peary was right to say it was like an issue of Mad brought to life. Bucket is darkly humorous, too, but it's more subtle, brooding, and realistic, if such terms can be used for a movie in which a slow-witted busboy at a beatnik coffee shop becomes a celebrated sculptor by killing people and covering their bodies in clay. Miller's character, Walter Paisley, is not as loveable as Seymour Krelboin. Like Seymour, Walter bumbles his way into killing at first, but he soon becomes a genuine -- if uncomprehending -- menace. And the relationship between Walter and fellow coffee shop employee Carla is not played for cute laughs the way the Seymour/Audrey relationship is in Little Shop. There's probably a good reason A Bucket of Blood never became a long-running stage musical. Peary critcized Bucket for not being "consistently amusing," but I'm not sure the film's entire point is to amuse. Like Little Shop, this is a parable about the terrible depths to which we will stoop for fame and fortune, but Bucket approaches this subject matter from a slightly -- mind you I said slightly -- more serious angle.

If Little Shop is an issue of Mad come to life, then A Bucket of Blood is an issue of Plop! come to life. For the uninitiated, Plop! The Magazine of Weird Humor! was a rather obscure comedy/horror comic that DC did in the 1970s. Many of its artists, including Sergio Aragones, were people who worked for Mad. That's what drew me to it when I discovered old back issues in a comic book shop in the 1980s. Each issue contained several short, darkly humorous (and usually supernatural) stories -- almost always about selfish or insane people who go to great lengths to commit evil deeds and then are punished in some ironically-appropriate way. A Bucket of Blood would have fit very nicely in the Plop! universe. In fact, there was a Plop! story called "Molded In Evil" which reminds me very much of this flick.

As a token of gratitude to those who have kept reading these posts, I have decided to scan that Plop! story and make it available to you. So here it is:

Molded in Evil, page 1
Molded in Evil, page 2
Molded in Evil, page 3
Molded in Evil, page 4

Enjoy.

Incidentally, I highly recommend The Little Shop of Horrors Book by John McCarty and Mark Thomas McGee. It was released in 1988 and contains lots of information and interviews concerning the 1960 Little Shop film and quite a bit about A Bucket of Blood, too. Corman, Miller, and Griffith are among its interview subjects. It's available cheap.

P.S. - A Bucket of Blood is another film which has slipped into the public domain and has been released dozens of times on DVD. This particular DVD was only barely adequate, made from a slightly glitchy VHS tape which in turn was made from a grainy and thread-plagued 16mm print. Of course, you can always watch it online.


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Joe Blevins 
"Don't I look handsome?"

Posted - 07/17/2009 :  02:56:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just one film left to go after this:

49. Bad Taste

This one had a looooooooong way to go to impress me. Peter Jackson's debut feature struck me as embarrassingly shoddy-looking and amateurish junk in its early stages. It seemed to suffer from a deadly combination of symptoms shared by many independent horror features: technical incompetence, utter lack of budget, terrible "acting" by obvious non-professionals, slipshod effects, and a juvenile script. I slumped in my chair and checked the film's running time as I watched a bunch of ordinary-looking schlubs (supposedly government agents) battling another bunch of ordinary-looking schlubs (supposedly space aliens). Since seemingly everyone in the film sported frizzy hair or a bad 1980s mullet, the two groups were distinguishable only by the fact that the alleged "aliens" wore blue work shirts. I began to wonder how this thing somehow garnered the second-highest rating out of fifty films, let alone established its writer and director as an up-and-comer. At first, the film seemed distinguished only by its occasional bursts of absurd humor (the quick throwaway gags start very early) and its rather heavy-handed use of blatantly unconvincing blood and gore.

It turns out I had underestimated Jackson and his film. Having already seen Meet the Feebles, I might've known better. Bad Taste is a rollicking farce which joyously lives up to its boastful title. I'm not exactly sure what movies and TV shows Jackson saw while growing up, but this film plays like a cross between Monty Python (especially Terry Gilliam's animations), Herschell Gordown Lewis, John Waters, Eraserhead, Looney Toons, and the Three Stooges -- all filtered through a unique New Zealand sense of humor. The blood and gore remain patently phony throughout, but Jackson is a virtuoso at devising outrageously disgusting and somtimes surreal visual jokes. (There's one whole subplot about a character who struggles to keep his brain inside his head for the entire film!) Better yet, the plot of the film gets wilder and wilder, and Jackson keeps coming up with ways to surprise the audience. If you can look past the cheapness and stupidity of Bad Taste -- and forgive the many sequences which go on too long or simply repeat dumb jokes -- this film is a blast. I can see why it might become a cult favorite, the type of movie people watch dozens of times and quote ethusiastically to one another. Like many cult movie characters, the people and aliens in Bad Taste speak as if they're hoping to be quoted out of context someday. The alien leader, in particular, has a gift for pithy sayings.

Certainly, the film is crude, and many viewers will not be able to see past the movie's many glaring flaws. But after a while, I began to get into the homemade "let's make a movie!" aesthetic on vivid display here. The word amateur, let's not forget, has its roots in the Latin word for "to love." Bad Taste could only be the work of a man who'd grown up loving horror and sci-fi flicks and wanted to top them all! This is the kind of movie in which you just know that the end credits are going to thank a bunch of the director's relatives. And when I got to those end credits, sure enough, there they were. I wonder if Jackson's "mum and dad" were proud of their boy, who -- in addition to writing, directing, editing, and creating the makeup and special effects -- plays one of the least-glamorous roles in the film.

Tomorrow... the be-all that ends all... Stay tuned!
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thefoxboy 
"Four your eyes only."

Posted - 07/17/2009 :  03:38:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got my hands on a copy of Bad Taste a couple of years ago, as you said Joe, it ends up being worth while.
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Joe Blevins 
"Don't I look handsome?"

Posted - 07/18/2009 :  02:39:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thefoxboy

I got my hands on a copy of Bad Taste a couple of years ago, as you said Joe, it ends up being worth while.



If you can resign yourself to watching a very crudely-made and proudly immature film with lots of slapstick and goofy "gross-out" humor, Bad Taste is well worth your time. I thought it improved tremendously when the locale shifted to the aliens' hideout/home base, the "historic homestead." Jackson takes full advantage -- and then some -- of this location. And as a Beatle fan, there was one running joke which I found almost unbearably funny.

P.S. - On the basis of this flick, New Zealand seems to be a gorgeous place. Even with all the carnage and bloodshed going on in the foreground, I could not help but notice the beautiful, almost unearthly scenery. I can certainly understand why Jackson chose to film the Lord of the Rings trilogy there. It looked like a place where they'd only sort of gotten the hang of "modern civilization."

Edited by - Joe Blevins on 07/18/2009 04:43:26
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Joe Blevins 
"Don't I look handsome?"

Posted - 07/18/2009 :  04:01:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No tears, please, as we reach the last Chilling Classic:

50. Deep Red

Rated 7.8, a full point ahead of its closest competitor, Deep Red is easily the most-acclaimed and celebrated film in this collection. A lot of that adulation, of course, has to do with the film's director, Dario Argento. I will cop to near-total ignorance of Argento's filmography. Previous to this, the only Argento flick I'd watched was Suspiria, and that was mainly due to my interest in its cast (especially Jessica Harper, Udo Kier, and Stefania Casini). I was at first baffled by Suspiria, but I was lucky enough to stumble upon this awesome site which offers a knowledgeable and entertaining fan-made commentary track. (I see he's also done one for Deep Red. Lucky me.) The commentary track didn't necessarily make me an Argento fan, but it at least educated me about why Suspiria is so special to its fans, and it helpfully sorted out some confusion I had over the weird dubbing.

Deep Red, Argento's film immediately prior to Suspiria, was not nearly so mysterious. For one thing, I am an admitted Brian De Palma junkie, and the setup of Deep Red was not terribly far away from such De Palma flicks as Sisters, Blow Out, and Dressed To Kill. As in those American movies, Deep Red at first introduces a character we think is going to be the protagonist (in this case, a German woman who claims to be a mind-reader), only to have that character murdered in the first act. Again, like the DePalma films, this one shifts its focus to someone who witnesses the murder and then spends the rest of the film playing detective (in this case, a pianist well-played by David Hemmings).

Apart from those surface similarities, Deep Red does not play out like a De Palma film, at least tonally. De Palma's movies are show-offy, full of cinemaphile in-jokes, technical gimmickry, some calculated affronts to good taste, and lots of sensationalized sex and violence. Argento's Deep Red, by contrast, is slower moving and more somber; its one big cultural reference is not to a Hitchcock movie but rather to Edward Hopper's painting, Nighthawks. There are moments of intense, bloody, and highly stylized violence in Deep Red, but even these scenes are more artistic than they are shocking or scary. It all seemed strangely formal. I was not necessarily bored or confused, but I was never 100% engaged in what was happening onscreen. Well, at least not until the last half hour or so which features some spectacular death scenes and major plot revelations.

I'll have to admit that when it comes to Dario Argento, I'm still a little out of my depth. Maybe if I want to give Deep Red a fair trial, I should see it in some incarnation other than Mill Creek's blurry, cropped transfer. The IMDb says that this film's original aspect ratio is 2.35:1, and all fifty of the films in this set are presented 1.33:1. There is some very noticeable panning and scanning going on here, and the colors throughout (including the deep red of the title) are grainy and washed-out. Pity, huh?

And so ends the 50 Chilling Classics project.

But hold on!

We've still got some awards to pass out. The first, last, and only Chilling Classics Awards (a.k.a. The Chillies) will be distributed in this thread some time this weekend, once I've narrowed down my choices in each category. And then, it's off to the next set, After Dark Thrillers: 8 Movie Collection, which I'll probably start up next week. I'm not sure whether to make that its own thread or tack it on to the end of this one. Any preferences, readers?

Edited by - Joe Blevins on 07/18/2009 04:50:09
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."

Posted - 07/18/2009 :  04:21:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Blevins

I thought it improved tremendously when the locale shifted the the aliens' hideout/home base, the "historic homestead."

There's a good reason for that, they received funding about half way through filming.

Glad you liked it. I love it, it's a comedy; nothing more, nothing less. But, have you seen Braindead aka Dead Alive? The gore in Bad Taste is absolutely nothing compared to that, it's the goriest movie I've seen, and is equally hilarious.
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."

Posted - 07/18/2009 :  04:35:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Blevins
quote:
Originally posted by Sean

BTW Joe, do you score movies at IMDb when you watch them? I do. If so, I'd be interested in seeing your scores.

I do not, generally. I was looking through my own vote history, and the votes seem to be fairly arbitrary. Apparently, I felt The Right Stuff merited only a 6, while The Invisible Maniac was a 10. Hmmm. Frankly, I've given just about everything a 10 regardless of quality. Kinda embarrassing, actually.

Here it is if you're interested.

There are no movies on that list. I'm guessing you haven't ticked the "Public" box?

Edited by - Sean on 07/18/2009 04:37:12
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Joe Blevins 
"Don't I look handsome?"

Posted - 07/18/2009 :  04:50:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Blevins
quote:
Originally posted by Sean

BTW Joe, do you score movies at IMDb when you watch them? I do. If so, I'd be interested in seeing your scores.

I do not, generally. I was looking through my own vote history, and the votes seem to be fairly arbitrary. Apparently, I felt The Right Stuff merited only a 6, while The Invisible Maniac was a 10. Hmmm. Frankly, I've given just about everything a 10 regardless of quality. Kinda embarrassing, actually.

Here it is if you're interested.

There are no movies on that list. I'm guessing you haven't ticked the "Public" box?



Fixed, I think.
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Joe Blevins 
"Don't I look handsome?"

Posted - 07/18/2009 :  05:00:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Blevins

I thought it improved tremendously when the locale shifted to the aliens' hideout/home base, the "historic homestead."

There's a good reason for that, they received funding about half way through filming.



Yeah, for the first reel or so, Bad Taste seems like overgrown kids playing "secret agents vs. aliens" in somebody's back yard. Then, they reach the alien hideout, and the inventive visuals start to kick in and the entire quality of the movie enjoys a healthy uptick. The finale is actually quite spectacular.

quote:
Glad you liked it. I love it, it's a comedy; nothing more, nothing less. But, have you seen Braindead aka Dead Alive? The gore in Bad Taste is absolutely nothing compared to that, it's the goriest movie I've seen, and is equally hilarious.



I have not, which is shameful because I listen to several horror-movie podcasts, and that film is worshipped by genre fans. The only other early Jackson film I'd seen was Meet the Feebles, which compared to Bad Taste seems positively dainty and subdued.
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."

Posted - 07/18/2009 :  08:00:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Blevins

I have not...

Well you know what to do about that then, don't you? Make sure you don't get one of the old censored/edited versions that may still be floating around.

BTW that link works now. I see what you mean about scoring everything 10. Here's mine if interested. I'm waiting for a rainy Sunday to IMDb-score the other movies I've scored at fwfr (about 500 to go).
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Joe Blevins 
"Don't I look handsome?"

Posted - 07/18/2009 :  23:27:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is the logo for Mill Creek Entertainment. I want you to watch it. Then I want you to watch it again. And then again.

I want you to watch it because I had to watch it at least 50 times, though probably many more times than that, in the course of this project. It is the only thing on each Chilling Classics disc that is guaranted: (a) to be perfectly in focus, and (b) to be in stereo. This very short, virtually plotless film (its only "characters" being unseen birds) focuses on an actual mill by an actual creek, only this facility miraculously churns out a giant strip of celluloid. This is an especially odd touch, as not one foot of celluloid has ever passed through the clutches of Mill Creek Entertainment. A better logo for the company might consist of a hand dropping a stack of VHS cassettes into a large and fearsome machine which grinds them up and spits out shiny new DVDs at the other end.

I wonder, at Mill Creek Entertainment corporate picnics, do employees join in a rousing chorus of the company's theme song?
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Joe Blevins 
"Don't I look handsome?"

Posted - 07/19/2009 :  01:38:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can you feel the excitement in the air, folks? Yes, the greatest stars in Tinseltown have gathered for the industry's single greatest awards program...

THE CHILLIES!
The First, Last & Only Chilling Classics Awards

WITH YOUR HOST, JOE BLEVINS


Good evening folks! Gosh, what an honor it is to be here tonight hosting this fabulous event. Of course, it's a tradition to kickstart these award ceremonies with a big musical number, and the Chillies will be no different. Hit it, boys!

(sung to the tune of "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover")

You say you can't afford to buy new DVDs.
The answer is easy if you're into gore and sleaze.
Just buy a jumbo pack of cinematic cheese.
It's Mill Creek's...
50 So-Called Chilling Classics!
50 So-Called Chilling Classics!


(A giant-sized recreation of the 50 Chilling Classics box is lowered onto the stage. The cover opens, revealing a chorus line of twelve dancers, each dressed as a double-sided DVD.)

Just open the case, ace!
Take out Disc One, son!
Pop in the machine, Gene!
That's whatcha must do!
Then you pick out a flick, Rick!
Just cancel that picniiiiic!
'Cause when it's all through, Lou
You pop in Disc Two!


Thank you! Thank you so very, very much! Now without further ado, let's start handing out those awards, shall we?

BEST ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE
Joy Bang (Messiah of Evil)
Francis Bavier (Man in the Attic)
Baybi Day (The Driller Killer)
Leigh Mitchell (Scream Bloody Murder)
Peggy Marx (The Legend of Bigfoot)

And the winner is... Francis Bavier for Man in the Attic!

BEST ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE
Claudia Jennings (Sisters of Death)
Barboura Morris (A Bucket of Blood)
Natasha Richardson (Gothic)
Barbara Steele (The Ghost)
Mary Woronov (Silent Night, Bloody Night)

And the winner is... Barbara Steele for The Ghost!

BEST ACTOR IN A SUPPORTING ROLE

Peter Falk (The Bloody Brood)
Herbert Fux (Lady Frankenstein)
Leif Garrett (Devil Times Five)
Peter Jackson (Bad Taste)
Newton Naushaus (Drive-In Massacre)

And the winner is... Leif Garrett for Devil Times Five!

BEST ACTOR IN A LEADING ROLE
Claudio Brook (Dr. Tarr's Torture Dungeon)
Richard Boone (I Bury the Living)
David Hemmings (Deep Red)
Dick Miller (A Bucket of Blood)
Jack Palance (Man in the Attic)

And the winner is... Claudio Brook for Dr. Tarr's Torture Dungeon!

BEST USE OF A SLUMMING CELEBRITY
Peter Cushing (Horror Express)
Glenn Ford (Virus)
Boris Karloff (Snake People)
Christopher Lee (Horror Express)
Robert Vaughn (Virus)

And the winner is... Christopher Lee for Horror Express!

WORST USE OF A SLUMMING CELEBRITY
Sonny Chiba (Virus)
Neil Hamilton (The Devil's Hand)
George Kennedy (Virus)
Ralph Meeker (The Alpha Incident)
Rudy Vallee (Slashed Dreams)

And the winner is... Rudy Vallee for Slashed Dreams!

That about does it for the acting awards. Coming up after the break, we'll hand out some technical awards and crown our Best Picture and Worst Picture.

Stay tuned!




Edited by - Joe Blevins on 07/19/2009 02:31:56
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Joe Blevins 
"Don't I look handsome?"

Posted - 07/19/2009 :  02:30:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Welcome back to THE CHILLIES, folks! I sure hope you're enjoying yourselves out there.

On with the awards...

BEST MUSIC
Guido & Maurizio De Angeles (Death Rage)
Goblin (Deep Red)
Pino Donaggio (Haunts)
Lionel Newman (Man in the Attic)
Gershon Kingsley (Silent Night, Bloody Night)

And the winner is... Goblin for Deep Red!

WORST MUSIC
Allyn Ferguson & Mischa Terr (The Devil's Hand)
A Spastic Child With a Garden Rake (Drive-In Massacre)
Theodore Roubanis (Medusa)
Ed Bogas (composer); Roberta Van Dere (singer) (Slashed Dreams)
Teo Macero & Janis Ian (Virus)

And the winners are... Ed Bogas and Roberta Van Dere for Slashed Dreams! Please feel free to pelt them with rocks and garbage as they walk to the podium! And get that rake away from that kid, for crying out loud!

WORST CINEMATOGRAPHY
Cathy's Curse
Demons of Ludlow
Drive-In Massacre
Oasis of the Zombies
The Witches Mountain


And the winner is... Drive-In Massacre, cinematography by Ken Gibb! Here are some prescription eyeglasses, Ken!

Now here's a fun and competitive category...

BEST NUDITY
Death Rage
Devil Times Five
The Demon
The Driller Killer
Revenge of Dr. X


And the winner is... Death Rage! But the real winners are those of us in the audience.

MOST BORING PICTURE
The Alpha Incident
Gothic
Medusa
Virus
The Witches Mountain


Zzzzzz... And the.... zzzzz... winner... zzzzz... Medusa... Zzzzzz...

Huh? Where was I? Oh, yes, a very important category...

THE EDWARD D. WOOD MEMORIAL AWARD FOR ENJOYABLE INCOMPETENCE
Drive-In Massacre
Metamorphosis
Snake People
Revenge of Dr. X
War of the Robots


And the winner is War of the Robots! I must say, this was a hard-fought category and all the nominees are worth seeing. Well, not Metamorphosis maybe.

Gettin' late. Better speed this up.

BEST TITLE
I Bury the Living
I Eat Your Skin
Jesse James Meets Frankenstein's Daughter
Silent Night, Bloody Night
Werewolf in a Girl's Dormitory


The winner is... I Eat Your Skin!

WILDEST PREMISE
Bad Taste
I Bury the Living
Oasis of the Zombies
Scream Bloody Murder
Jesse James Meets Frankenstein's Daughter


And the winner is... I Bury the Living!

Now, at last, we get into the really heavy, super-duper serious categories. So put down that beer and pay attention!

BEST DIRECTOR
Dario Argento (Deep Red)
Roger Corman (Bucket of Blood)
Abel Ferrara (The Driller Killer)
Hugo Fregonese (Man in the Attic)
Peter Jackson (Bad Taste)

And the Chilly for Best Director goes to... Peter Jackson for his superhuman efforts in bringing Bad Taste to the screen!

One last nasty award, and it's a doozy.

WORST PICTURE
Cathy's Curse
The Cold
Memorial Valley Massacre
Oasis of the Zombies
Slashed Dreams


(Dishonorable mention: The Alpha Incident, The Demon, Demons of Ludlow, Medusa, The Witches Mountain.)

And the very worst picture in Mill Creek Entertainment's 50 Chilling Classics boxed set is...





Memorial Valley Massacre!


May there never be a sequel.

And now, at long last, the category I've been waiting for!

BEST PICTURE
Bad Taste
A Bucket of Blood
Devil Times Five
Dr. Tarr's Torture Dungeon
Horror Express


(Honorable mention: Deep Red, I Bury the Living, Lady Frankenstein, Man in the Attic, The Ghost.)

And the winner for Best Picture is...

Devil Times Five


Congratulations to the makers of Devil Times Five. Thank you for following this thread, and I sincerely hope you will join me for After Dark Thrillers: 8 Movie Collection, coming soon to the Fourum.

Good night, folks!
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Conan The Westy 
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"

Posted - 07/19/2009 :  22:28:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Blevins
BEST ACTOR IN A SUPPORTING ROLE[/b]
Peter Falk (The Bloody Brood)
Herbert Fux (Lady Frankenstein)
Leif Garrett (Devil Times Five)
Peter Jackson (Bad Taste)
Newton Naushaus (Drive-In Massacre)

And the winner is... Leif Garrett for Devil Times Five



I bet that's the first time Leif Garrett and Best Actor have been mentioned in the same sentence.

Edited by - Conan The Westy on 07/19/2009 22:33:19
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Joe Blevins 
"Don't I look handsome?"

Posted - 07/20/2009 :  00:44:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Blevins
BEST ACTOR IN A SUPPORTING ROLE[/b]
Peter Falk (The Bloody Brood)
Herbert Fux (Lady Frankenstein)
Leif Garrett (Devil Times Five)
Peter Jackson (Bad Taste)
Newton Naushaus (Drive-In Massacre)

And the winner is... Leif Garrett for Devil Times Five



I bet that's the first time Leif Garrett and Best Actor have been mentioned in the same sentence.



I'd wager you're right. I have to admit, I was taken aback by Leif's performance in Devil Times Five. On the back cover of the boxed set, there's an alphabetical listing of all 50 movies, and only one cast member from each movie is named -- usually the most famous person in it, regardless of how big that person's role is. For Devil Times Five, Leif was the representative "star" on the back cover, but he was way down in the credits. I figured he'd just have a cameo or something. But no. He's actually the central villain in it, and he was only about 12 or 13 at the time.


Edited by - Joe Blevins on 07/20/2009 00:50:51
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