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Salopian 
"Four ever European"
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 Posted - 10/17/2008 : 00:32:29
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| Wheelz, yes, the Bush administration is more arrogant than most, but that is not the same as Bush himself. And with regard to himself, the point is that all other presidents in recent history seem more arrogant to me. Anyone standing for president is by definition at least quite arrogant. No one who wants power ought to get it. |
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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 10/17/2008 : 09:28:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
Wheelz, yes, the Bush administration is more arrogant than most, but that is not the same as Bush himself. And with regard to himself, the point is that all other presidents in recent history seem more arrogant to me. Anyone standing for president is by definition at least quite arrogant. No one who wants power ought to get it.
So when are you announcing your candidacy?   
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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 10/17/2008 : 10:55:42
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Come on Baffy, there's such a thing as over-qualification, you know! 
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Wheelz 
"FWFR%u2019ing like it%u2019s 1999"
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Posted - 10/17/2008 : 13:18:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
Wheelz, yes, the Bush administration is more arrogant than most, but that is not the same as Bush himself. And with regard to himself, the point is that all other presidents in recent history seem more arrogant to me.
I suppose arrogance, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. To me, whenever W answers a question, his body language, facial expressions, and tone of voice all seem to say, "How stupid of you to even ask me that. The answer is so obvious I shouldn't even be bothered to explain myself, and anyone who disagrees is clearly wrong." Maybe not everybody gets that impression, but I'm betting most people see what I mean.
As for other recent Presidents being more arrogant, I will give you Clinton. He got a pass from the public because he was extremely popular and the economy thrived under his administration, but yeah. He was basically caught red, um, handed having an affair in the oval office. He denied, then tried to re-define when he could no longer deny, never once showing an ounce of contrition or remorse.
Some have described Reagan as arrogant, but even though I disagreed with many of his policies, I had much respect for the man, and I believe his demeanor was truly one of strength and confidence. It's a fine line, to be sure, but he backed up his talk with decisive action. Bush the First carried much of Reagan's confidence into his tenure but not so much of the strength, which was kind of an odd combination. Still, I think he was generally sincere and fair-minded. (At least compared to his kid.)
Jimmy Carter was one of the humblest Presidents ever, and probably not surprisingly, that helped undermine his effectiveness as a leader. So perhaps a bit of arrogance is necessary to hold such an important position.
quote:
Anyone standing for president is by definition at least quite arrogant. No one who wants power ought to get it.
True enough, and one of the great paradoxes of the ages. But despite its flaws, our system of representative democracy has worked pretty well for us in general. |
Edited by - Wheelz on 10/17/2008 13:34:33 |
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BiggerBoat 
"Pass me the harpoon"
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Posted - 10/17/2008 : 14:20:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
Wheelz, yes, the Bush administration is more arrogant than most, but that is not the same as Bush himself. And with regard to himself, the point is that all other presidents in recent history seem more arrogant to me. Anyone standing for president is by definition at least quite arrogant. No one who wants power ought to get it.
I think that if you consider yourself suitable for the position of most powerful man in the world when you're plainly not intelligent, wise, humble or insightful enough displays a certain arrogance. At least some, if not most, of the previous presidents appeared to have enough of these qualities to make themselve believeable in the role at the very least. |
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 10/18/2008 : 16:05:15
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I think what Wheelz describes comes across to me as insecurity, intolerance and being flustered by being out of his depth.
He is certainly less suited to the job than all predecessors, but I don't believe they were the best out of hundreds of millions of citizens. It was their opinion of themselves that caused them to go for the top. With Bush, I've always seen him as a puppet that others drove to the top. |
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 10/19/2008 : 01:09:41
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On choosing candidates from among the general population:
During the 1992 campaign season, I was on a redeye from Seattle which stopped in Chicago. A gentleman boarded there and sat next to me. It was none other than George McGovern. I let him eat his breakfast and read his paper in peace, then asked, "How does the election look to you, Senator?" [He said, "Clinton in a squeaker," which is exactly what happened.] During our ensuing conversation, he said two things that startled me:
1) In the 1972 campaign, one in which his first choice for VP withdrew from the ticket after it was revealed that he'd previously undergone shock therapy for depression, McGovern said that never once was he asked a question about his personal life.
2) To my next question, "Well then, would you still run for president in today's climate?" He said, "Absolutely not." Whatever you think of the Senator's politics, you surely must concede that he's a decent man and was a just and thoughtful public servant. I immediately realized that nowadays we don't select candidates from the entire electorate, only from those who choose to lay their private lives open for all to see, including info that is nobody's goddam business. If George McGovern declines, how many other fine public servants do too?
P.S. Everyone in the cabin heard McGovern's distinctive voice, and heard me tell him that my first presidential vote was cast for him. [Back then, you couldn't vote at 18, only kill people in Vietnam. I had to wait till I was 21, even though the law had changed in the interim.] When we landed in New York and the seat belt sign went off, people leapt to their feet to shake his hand and tell him that they also had voted for him in '72. "Wait a minute," McGovern said with a smile. "If everybody voted for me, why didn't I win?" |
Edited by - randall on 10/19/2008 01:10:03 |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 10/20/2008 : 12:11:01
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Great story.
(And the answer is - I wasn't 21 back then, that's why. But I was a supporter.)
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 10/20/2008 : 12:12:36
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By the way, my review for this movie was accepted - and I was surprised it got through.
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benj clews
"...."
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Posted - 10/20/2008 : 12:17:19
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
By the way, my review for this movie was accepted - and I was surprised it got through.
Me too! |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 10/20/2008 : 12:20:53
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quote:
Originally posted by benj clews
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
By the way, my review for this movie was accepted - and I was surprised it got through.
Me too!
Maybe it was the question mark that allowed the MERP accept to it. I only submitted it as a joke, and was sure it was going to be rejected. (Yes, I do that sometimes.) But Benj, if you think it isn't appropriate or shouldn't have gotten accepted, you are welcome to delete it. |
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benj clews
"...."
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Posted - 10/20/2008 : 15:06:59
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
quote:
Originally posted by benj clews
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
By the way, my review for this movie was accepted - and I was surprised it got through.
Me too!
Maybe it was the question mark that allowed the MERP accept to it. I only submitted it as a joke, and was sure it was going to be rejected. (Yes, I do that sometimes.) But Benj, if you think it isn't appropriate or shouldn't have gotten accepted, you are welcome to delete it.
Thanks for that- I'll check with the MERPs first, see if I'm missing something |
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BiggerBoat
"Pass me the harpoon"
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Posted - 10/20/2008 : 23:55:30
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
By the way, my review for this movie was accepted - and I was surprised it got through.
David Cross agrees with you
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 10/21/2008 : 01:55:36
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I was also (just) 21 when I first voted, as I turned 18 in 1994 and the next general election was in 1997. I wanted to vote in (British) local elections while I was in Nepal in 1995, but my mum failed to send me the postal ballot.
Anyway, I'm mentioning this because if the age were 16 I would (just) have been able to vote in 1992. 18 seems a reasonable age until you remember that 16-year-olds can work full time and thus be taxed. Taxation without representation sound familiar? It's not quite such an impossible-to-refute argument as that raised by the Vietnam War, but I still find it very compelling.
Another issue I only first read about recently, and by coincidence has been confirmed by a friend of my flatmate currently visiting from the U.A.E., is that all adult citizens having the vote does not equate to democracy. It had never occurred to me before that one could be born and live one's whole life in a country and not be eligible for citizenship. However, as he is ethnically Indian, he is compelled to have an Indian passport. (This is something that India allows for all ethnic Indians, but I wonder what happens when the other country is not so accommodating.)
Finally, I strongly object to any prisoners being denied the right to vote. They should only have their freedom taken away, not their voice. I don't think they would make a difference here, but I know that there are some massive prisons in the U.S. in otherwise low-population areas. I think that the prison set-up should be different (or they could just get to vote only in their area of previous residence) rather than denying them the vote for fear of some ridiculous/dangerous local results. |
Edited by - Salopian on 10/21/2008 01:57:01 |
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thefoxboy
"Four your eyes only."
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Posted - 10/22/2008 : 00:11:31
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What about murderers that took away the voice of the victim?
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Computer says no
