| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Salopian |
Posted - 10/20/2006 : 13:58:44
I'm after films which involve a specific type of bilngualism, where both/all parties speak both languages, and the conversation flows between the two phrase by phrase. Examples are Monsoon Wedding and Quincea�era. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Shiv |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 13:02:20
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
This isn't a Bollywood film... It's a Canadian/English collaboration, and there is not a single song in it!
Not all Bollywood films have singing, you know! I'm sure you're right about where the funding came from, but Mehta made the film because of her Indian-ness, not her Canadian-ness. So Bollywood may not be correct if one takes that to strictly mean films made in Bombay, but I was only talking casually and the film is still definitely in the category that I meant. If I ever see it then I have no doubt that I will add it.
Yes, she raises the issue of widows in Hindu culture. Although the film is set in the time of Ghandi, it is still a pertinent issue. I have seen two documentaries on the topic now. It is a beautifully made and moving film, and I was really hoping it would win the Foreign Film Academy Award, but I think it was a rank outsider. I didn't know anything about it when I rented it, and was surprised to see it nominated. |
| Salopian |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 17:06:29
quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
This isn't a Bollywood film... It's a Canadian/English collaboration, and there is not a single song in it!
Not all Bollywood films have singing, you know! I'm sure you're right about where the funding came from, but Mehta made the film because of her Indian-ness, not her Canadian-ness. So Bollywood may not be correct if one takes that to strictly mean films made in Bombay, but I was only talking casually and the film is still definitely in the category that I meant. If I ever see it then I have no doubt that I will add it. |
| Shiv |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 00:24:24
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
Suggestion for film Water (2005 Deepa Mehta) - they fluctuate between Hindi and English in the way you describe.
Most Bollywood films do this, at least ones planned to have international release. I have therefore decided to only add the ones that I have seen. Thanks anyway, though.
This isn't a Bollywood film - have you seen it? I'd say not. It's a Canadian/English collaboration, and there is not a single song in it! In fact, I think it perfectly matches what you are looking for with code-switching. So - maybe watch it then decide?? (By the way, it was nominated for the Foreign Film oscar...) |
| Salopian |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 23:40:16
quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
Just to confuse you more sal, how about "A Clockwork Orange" where Anthony Burgess' created language of the future which was a mix of Russian and english is used.
Nah, that wouldn't count. It has to be back and forth between languages, not just a creole - invented or otherwise. Thanks too, though. |
| Salopian |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 23:38:53
quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
Suggestion for film Water (2005 Deepa Mehta) - they fluctuate between Hindi and English in the way you describe.
Most Bollywood films do this, at least ones planned to have international release. I have therefore decided to only add the ones that I have seen. Thanks anyway, though. |
| Beanmimo |
Posted - 03/02/2007 : 16:21:47
Just to confuse you more sal, how about "A Clockwork Orange" where Anthony Burgess' created language of the future which was a mix of Russian and english is used. |
| Shiv |
Posted - 03/02/2007 : 11:16:21
Suggestion for film Water (2005 Deepa Mehta) - they fluctuate between Hindi and English in the way you describe.
As for children learning language, there's been a lot of research done on this, and the 'critical period' for language acquisition is 0 to 7 years (obviously this varies in each child, but that's the mean). The difficulties Sean describes learning language at the age of 30 are also reflected in the research. If you are not innately a good language learner (and there are such people - some of amazing abilities) then you really struggle, because your language has 'fossilised' and you find the acquisition of new language structures and new phonology really hard.
Did you know that Joseph Conrad (Heart of Darkness etc) was never able to learn to speak English fluently, and that up until his death his Polish accent was indecipherable. However, he wrote beautifully in English. If you didn't know he was Polish you would not know it from his writing. |
| Salopian |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 12:40:17
The language learning thing is called the critical period hypothesis and the age is often thought to be about puberty (younger for phonology). The idea is that we are evolved to have learnt language by then and so the specialisation shuts down to a high degree, so that the brain can concentrate on other things. This is not so strongly held as it was in the late 1960s/1970s, but I still think it is pretty valid. It doesn't just apply to second languages, but to first languages too - as was tragically shown by the case of Genie (and others).
It's amazing how easily children learn language. Young children need to master several new words a day in order to achieve a typical vocabulary. Children can also usually become bilingual with relatively little input - for example hearing children growing up in deaf environments only need a few hours' exposure to spoken language a week. |
| Salopian |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 12:30:20
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Its been such a long time since I saw Cabaret that I just don't recall. I do think the Germans spoke German in that movie, and other than that, there is the multi-language themesong.
As for Avanti Popolo - come to think of it, there is a long scene where the two Egyptian soldiers meet with Israeli soldiers and the conversation between them is in English (and I'm almost certain that the Israelis speak Hebrew to one another as well, despite IMDb not mentioning Hebrew in the languages). So this whole scene is Arabic among the Egyptians, Hebrew among the Israelis and English between the Israelis and Egyptians. And of course the title of the film is Italian - and the soldiers sing this same titled Italian Revolution song in the film (even though none of them understand it). Does that count?
I'll leave Cabaret for now then. Since I'll probably see it at some point, I'll decide then. It doesn't sound as though Avanti Popolo is quite right. It needs to be properly bilingual individuals, who change language with the same other individuals. |
| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 06:15:16
We've come to the conclusion that the age of 10 is the cut-off age. If you were younger then 10 when you moved from one country to another, then the language of your new country will become your more dominant language. If you're older than 10, while you can become fluent, your original language will still be the one you are most comfortable with. If you're exactly 10, you'll be equally strong in both languages.
Of course, it also depends on the personality of the kid. The more they want to integrate into the country, the faster and more fluent they'll become. But some things just can't be helped, no matter how you try. That's why kids who come over the age of ten are given extra time and some help with their matriculation tests.
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| Sean |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 22:37:28
quote:
Originally posted by bife
Linda and Alice turned the tables on me when we moved to Holland. Within three months she was 100% fluent, such that other locals couldn't tell she wasn't Dutch...
I think that's 'cos kids are sponges. They just soak it up and can learn new languages in no time. When I was about 30 I had to learn French when I was living in Guinea (West Africa), I started a course two weeks before arriving there, and had previously learned nothing, not even basic French at school. For six months there I spoke virtually no English (nobody there speaks English) so had no choice but to speak French. After six months I had basic survival French, i.e., could communicate with the locals and get the job done etc. But there's no way in hell would I call it 'fluent'. I'd learn a new word and have forgotten it 5 minutes later. Try again with the same word next day and forget it again. I suspect this was due to age, if I'd been 10 years old I would have soaked it up and become fluent in a few months, like Miss Alice.
My memory is definitely declining, and I'm not even 40 yet.  So there's no chance of ever becoming fluent in another language, irrespective of necessity.  |
| bife |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 14:54:06
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
Thanks for all the suggestions. I will start an accolade then. After I posted on Saturday night, some girls on the bus were doing this between Mandarin or Cantonese and English, answering in a different language to being asked etc. I really like to hear this kind of thing for some reason, although they were being very boring and talking about accountancy.
Come on over to our house - we do this all the time. Hebrew-English-American (hey, what can I say, I was born in the USA and my husband was born in London).
Yep, happens a lot in mine too.
I am english, Linda is dutch, the kids (those that can speak, anyway) speak by preference dutch, but can swap into english with relative ease. Conversations with Linda are mostly in English, but in any given conversation we usually swap between the two, even though my dutch is miles away from being fluent. Makes for some wierd conversations, and some strange looks when we are out in public - people sometimes think we have switched too dutch just to be rude or to talk about them, when in fact that is only occassionally the case 
When Miss Alice (my daughter from a previous relationship ) was younger (from say 4 to 7 years old) Linda and I used to talk dutch to each other in front of her when we didn't want her to understand what we were saying. We explained to her that if we were speaking dutch in frint of her, it was usually about her birthday present, so she wasn't allowed to understand it. She was always very excited whenever she heard us speaking dutch!
Linda and Alice turned the tables on me when we moved to Holland. Within three months she was 100% fluent, such that other locals couldn't tell she wasn't dutch, while i was still stuck with my basic 'schoolboy dutch' (alright - there is no such thing as schoolboy dutch, but you get my point). So instead of Linda and I talking about alice so that she couldn't understand, linda and alice started talking about me, suitably fast and with sufficient local accent that they knew I'd never be able to follow it properly  Women |
| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 09:26:53
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Would you include Cabaret? I mean, at least the title song has more than one language in it, and I remember hearing some German as well as a word of Hebrew or two.[/url]
From the English/German pointy of view, I assume that the English is pretending to be German speech? Are there any sentences/half sentences in Hebrew?
quote:
Also, I'm wondering if you'd accept Avanti Popolo? The only English it has is when one of the soldiers recites Shakespeare.
Apart from that, is it one or more languages the rest of the time?
Its been such a long time since I saw Cabaret that I just don't recall. I do think the Germans spoke German in that movie, and other than that, there is the multi-language themesong.
As for Avanti Popolo - come to think of it, there is a long scene where the two Egyptian soldiers meet with Israeli soldiers and the conversation between them is in English (and I'm almost certain that the Israelis speak Hebrew to one another as well, despite IMDb not mentioning Hebrew in the languages). So this whole scene is Arabic among the Egyptians, Hebrew among the Israelis and English between the Israelis and Egyptians. And of course the title of the film is Italian - and the soldiers sing this same titled Italian Revolution song in the film (even though none of them understand it). Does that count?
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| Salopian |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 17:26:43
Done. I have just added for now the films in this thread, already on the database and that seemed to fit. Please let me know of any additions/subtractions. I'll give it a better title when I think of one.
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| Salopian |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 17:23:47
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Would you include Cabaret? I mean, at least the title song has more than one language in it, and I remember hearing some German as well as a word of Hebrew or two.[/url]
From the English/German pointy of view, I assume that the English is pretending to be German speech? Are there any sentences/half sentences in Hebrew?
quote:
Also, I'm wondering if you'd accept Avanti Popolo? The only English it has is when one of the soldiers recites Shakespeare.
Apart from that, is it one or more languages the rest of the time?
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