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The General 
"Forty? What? Me? How?."
Canada
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 Posted - 28/05/2006 : 17:31:17
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I surfed on to the front page of FWFR and read the following new review (edited to remove spoiler):
Jean kisses, ********* Cyclops.
If you've seen the review, it seems to give away some of the movie's plot (I'm not sure, as I haven't seen the movie yet). I'm looking forward to seeing it and, if this review is true, part of the suspense is now taken away for me.
Is there an approach the MERPs take to spoiler reviews? Perhaps they should not be posted along with other new reviews and reviewers could keep them out of their FYCs until the movie is a few months old. |
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benj clews 
"...."
United Kingdom
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Posted - 28/05/2006 : 19:15:10
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Only problem is: we'd then need to define what a spoiler is. After all, you could say *any* plot details mentioned in a review are a spoiler.
Ignoring this small problem, it's still virtually impossible to maintain something where we're dependant on individual users not putting these reviews in their FYCs.
Presuming we *could* settle on the definition of a spoiler, the best that could be done is to have a checkbox to say if a review is a spoiler or not (that only editors can set) and then have some kind of button or something a user will click to say whether they want to see that film's spoilers or not. It'd be a nice idea, but I'm not sure I'd want to go through the 180,000 review back catalogue we already have setting this up  |
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Yukon 
"Co-editor of FWFR book"
Kingston, Canada
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Posted - 28/05/2006 : 19:52:13
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I did the same thing awhile ago (can't remember the movie.) So I learned that if there is a movie out there I want to see, resist the urge to check it out on FWFR.
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Koli 
"Striving lackadaisically for perfection."
United Kingdom
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Posted - 28/05/2006 : 20:16:47
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If it's possible to put in safeguards I'd certainly appreciate it. Giving away plot details is inevitable, but sometimes the ending is given away and that's quite annoying if I haven't seen the film.
For instance, a couple of months ago I watched House of Flying Daggers in two instalments (I need more beauty sleep than attractive people do), and after watching the first two-thirds I felt I'd seen enough to post a review or two. So I checked to see what was there already, and saw a review that told me exactly how it ends. Bah!  |
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The General
"Forty? What? Me? How?."
Canada
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Posted - 28/05/2006 : 21:11:37
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Some more thoughts here after reading posts so far:
1. I think this could only apply to new films. As Benj notes there's no way to redo the entire back catalogue. And for most older films I've usually already heard all the key plot elements.
2. I agree with Yukon that if I haven't seen a movie I don't look up its reviews. My concern was more with reviews that appear in ways that are beyond my control (i.e. on the most recent reviews list, on the front page, in FYC). If an editor had a spoiler checkbox, could s/he make the movie ineligible for display in these?
If not, could a spoiler checkbox bar a review from being seen everywhere for a limited time? (six months or a year?)
3. Here's the definition of spoiler from dictionary.com:
A remark which reveals important plot elements from books or movies, thus denying the reader (of the article) the proper suspense when reading the book or watching the movie.
Change the word "review" for "remark" and you've got your definition, Benj. |
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benj clews
"...."
United Kingdom
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Posted - 28/05/2006 : 22:04:03
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quote:
Originally posted by dhannah
Here's the definition of spoiler from dictionary.com:
A remark which reveals important plot elements from books or movies, thus denying the reader (of the article) the proper suspense when reading the book or watching the movie.
Change the word "review" for "remark" and you've got your definition, Benj.
Hmm, still a little vague for my liking. I mean, what do we class as 'proper' suspense? What do we class as 'important'? Sure, you could say the fact the main character is dead is a spoiler, but what about what a Big Mac is called in France? It may not be what most people consider integral to the plot, but it'd still spoil that scene to know the quote in advance. And anything that makes you go "I know what's coming next" will take you out of the film for a moment. These may be two very different extremes of the same issue, but you can bet your grandmother's legs there's a great many other plot elements that fall somewhere between them both.
So then we're back to figuring out just how much is too much. It's a line-call once again. Just like how generic is too generic. And just like with generics, I can guarantee people will start protesting whether their review is registered as a spoiler or not (because, after all, if your review isn't immediately shown, then you're losing out on votes, aren't you?)
I'm not getting at the idea by any means, in fact I've considered the implementation of this a great many times myself before (as you may be able to tell). However, I'm hoping this shows how something like this isn't quite as simple as it may sound to implement, both in terms of technicality AND definition  |
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randall 
"I like to watch."
NYC, USA
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Posted - 28/05/2006 : 22:23:22
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| benj, I remember once, before you enlisted MERPs, that you complained you were waiting in the cinema to see a movie and idly processing reviews, and a spoiler for that very film came up! I honestly don't know how you would automate a process which filters spoilers, unless, as suggested, the reviewer might check a box voluntarily. Even with that, what's the proper time frame after which it could be assumed that everyone's seen, say, CRYING GAME or SIXTH SENSE? Or even PSYCHO? I think spoilers are inevitable here at fwfr, and the only defense is individual: don't go to a fwfr page for a movie you haven't seen unless you're willing to risk reading a spoiler. |
Edited by - randall on 28/05/2006 22:24:01 |
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benj clews
"...."
United Kingdom
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Posted - 28/05/2006 : 22:35:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Randall
benj, I remember once, before you enlisted MERPs, that you complained you were waiting in the cinema to see a movie and idly processing reviews, and a spoiler for that very film came up! I honestly don't know how you would automate a process which filters spoilers, unless, as suggested, the reviewer might check a box voluntarily. Even with that, what's the proper time frame after which it could be assumed that everyone's seen, say, CRYING GAME or SIXTH SENSE? Or even PSYCHO? I think spoilers are inevitable here at fwfr, and the only defense is individual: don't go to a fwfr page for a movie you haven't seen unless you're willing to risk reading a spoiler.
What can I say? I even said it in my interview- fwfr is very much a post-cinema experience.
Sure, we could implement a (no doubt controversial) spoiler system, but...
(a). With the greatest of respect to the reviewers here, would you freely choose 'This Is A Spoiler' when you know it will by default hide your review from readers until they click a button? Might as well call the option 'Halve The Number Of Votes I Get' 
(b). The style of writing here has evolved to the point that half the reviews don't make sense without knowing the details of the film anyway. We aren't afforded a 'What this film is about' introduction on each film like you normally get in reviews. This site is not one people ever recommend going to to decide what to see, but it works very nicely after seeing a film. |
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TitanPa
"Here four more"
United States
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Posted - 29/05/2006 : 04:58:22
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Its inevitable to come by a spoiler. The Radio, the news, Friends, Standing in line at the movies while the earlier show is letting out (I HATE THAT.....Wait til you're in your car before you talk abouit the movie!!!!)
I must admit I like to review a movie before I see it. Just to beat some people to the punch (line). But I also saw the spoiler review for X-men 3. I kicked myself. Wish I wouldnt have seen it. But oh well. If there is a movie I relaylike to see..I wont go review it.
How about if the movie is in the top 10 movie list of the week then the spoilers stay hidden. Only after then the spoilers can be shown. But I too wouldnt know a spoiler from a regular review. You know the Titanic Sinks, King Kong dies, Darth Vader is Luke's Father, ..well if not. then I too am a spoiler. I wouldnt know where to begin. |
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AC
"Returning FWFR Old-Timer"
Canada
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Posted - 29/05/2006 : 13:57:29
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Yeah, it's a tricky one, but as Benj says, it's an inevitability that plot points will emerge when people review with the benefit of hindsight, and all that can be done is to go out of your way to avoid that film's page until after you've seen the movie. Josh the Cat's 'School's Out' accolade is driving me crazy at the moment because some bright spark added the sixth Harry Potter film (when they're barely into filming the fifth one) - which I can't review or go to the page of because I am waiting until the paperback version of the book comes out in July. Regardless, I've already caught a couple of spoilers in the speech bubble and have a fairly good idea what happens in it. 
Although it sucks to have spoilers around, as Benj says, anything could be counted as a spoiler - some would suggest that mentioning Sean Connery's role in 'Robin Hood Prince of Thieves' is a spoiler because he wasn't pre-credited as part of the cast, but knowing that he's in it does nothing to spoil the end result of the film... I would even suggest that in the trailer for 'The DaVinci Code' there are at least two spoilers, where two pivotal climactic moments are shown IN THE TRAILER!
Sad to say, spoilers are inevitable. I think if we start censoring reviews just in case someone hasn't seen it, we're on a slippery slope. And then when does it become okay to 'release' the spoilers? What about those who wait til it's out on DVD? And as Randall said, have a thought for Benj and the MERPs who have to approve spoiler reviews!  |
Edited by - AC on 29/05/2006 13:58:53 |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
New Zealand
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Posted - 30/05/2006 : 01:04:38
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quote:
Originally posted by TitanPa
You know the Titanic Sinks...
Damn, no point in me watching it now!
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randall
"I like to watch."
NYC, USA
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Posted - 30/05/2006 : 01:12:38
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quote:
Originally posted by AussieCanuck
Sad to say, spoilers are inevitable. I think if we start censoring reviews just in case someone hasn't seen it, we're on a slippery slope. And then when does it become okay to 'release' the spoilers? What about those who wait til it's out on DVD? And as Randall said, have a thought for Benj and the MERPs who have to approve spoiler reviews!
I also hate it when magazines and newspapers participate in the spoilage. The most hateful example I can remember was an ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY preview feature on Gus Van Sant's remake of PSYCHO. Whatever you thought about this experiment, or its results, one important excuse for rolling film was that there was a generation of moviegoers who recoiled against historical, or black-and-white, movies. The thinking was, let's remake PSYCHO for them; presumably, kids who had never seen Hitchcock's version. But in its article, EW spoiled the main surprise, before the remake had even opened!!!!
I didn't care for this remake of one of my most revered movies, but still: please remember, members of the press, not everybody has seen the original!!! Of course, this particular spoiler is all over fwfr, and the culture at large. But EW should have kept its mouth shut, so some Gen Xers could have been as shocked as I was when I first saw Hitch's masterpiece of audience manipulation. |
Edited by - randall on 30/05/2006 01:19:37 |
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Willy Weasel 
"Look left and right."
England
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Posted - 30/05/2006 : 03:19:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
You know the Titanic Sinks...
Damn, no point in me watching it now!
I'm going to try to redress the balance with 'anti-spoilers'.
"I've heard 'The Poseidon' doesn't spring a leak in the remake."
I think the same rule applies to reviews appearing on ANY page. Film titles are in bold blue type above the review which is in light grey type; therefore it is easy to read no further if you recognise a recent film title you are considering watching. Just like those puzzles in magazines where answers are printed upside down beneath the questions, it is possible to discipline oneself to avoid spoilers. I'm all for Benj's time being applied elsewhere inc. leisure to keep him chirpy |
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Josh the cat
"ice wouldn't melt, you'd think ....."
East Yorkshire, England.
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Posted - 30/05/2006 : 22:27:46
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quote:
Originally posted by AussieCanuck
Josh the Cat's 'School's Out' accolade is driving me crazy at the moment because some bright spark added the sixth Harry Potter film (when they're barely into filming the fifth one) - which I can't review or go to the page of because I am waiting until the paperback version of the book comes out in July.
AC thinks I'm smart how cool is that |
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MM0rkeleb
"Better than HBO."
Palo Alto, CA
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Posted - 31/05/2006 : 00:49:12
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Just to weigh in with my two cents on spoilers ...
I actually don't really mind spoilers so much. The way I see it, if a film's any good, it should have rewatch value. Since any movie is necessarily spoiled the second time, any movie that is actually spoiled by spoilers is no big loss. Of course, that's not to say one shouldn't care about spoilers at all, but I don't think it's a big deal.
For example, I thought The Conversdation was a terrific movie, despite having it "spoiled" for me by the movie rental box synopsis. Granted, I didn't realize that the twist was supposed to be a twist, but still. |
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duh
"catpurrs"
See Fourum for details.
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Posted - 31/05/2006 : 05:58:12
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Spoilers are irrelevant for me. That's because my memory works overtime and inserts scenes/actors into movies that were never in them to begin with. Those of you who have seen me here for a year or two have had a laugh or two at my expense on account of that.
As Sean said once, I don't have to rent DVD's, I can just sit on my couch and watch the movies in my head.  |
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Spoiler Reviews
